“We are walking along a tightrope”: Nigel Thrift interview

By Tamsin Paternoster, Ann Yip

Oct. 29, 2014
Posted in Featured News, News, Student Concerns

The roadworks, the staff pension dispute and the proposed job losses at the Medical School and Life Sciences were the Boar’s main topics of discussion at an interview session with Warwick University vice-chancellor Nigel Thrift on Thursday 23 October.

The interview session was attended by Tamsin Paternoster and Ann Yip from the Boar, Radio at Warwick (RAW) and Warwick TV (WTV).

The questions and answers are seen below. Discussion topics included:

Roadworks

Staff pension dispute

Job losses in the Medical School and Life Sciences

Warwick Sport fee increases

General university development

Roadworks

RAW: Were there any measures taken to prevent roadworks from carrying into term time? There’s been a lot of disruption with the roads still being closed.

THRIFT: The main roads should’ve been finished by just about beginning of term, but some of the granite blocks got stuck in a ship on the way from China. That’s meant that the whole thing has been extended. The security roundabout is problematic. They found an enormous water leak which had been there for a very long time. They’re now having to dig all of that out. Then the roundabout off Gibbet Hill Road that’s being put in, we weren’t quite sure when that was going to be put in and that was supposed to be a separate thing.The money that is available for these things is in a set time period, so we have to get it done fairly quickly. At the same time, the pain from this is very apparent, and I apologise to all students and staff affected. But at the same time, if we’re ever going to have a campus where there is at least some degree of free flow traffic, we have to do something about it. It’s one of those things that just became difficult.

Staff pension dispute

BOAR: How does the University feel about staff strikes potentially happening again?

THRIFT: Well, it would prefer they didn’t. We are aware of the concern staff have over their pensions, and we expect that they would be concerned. We’ll simply have to wait and see, I can’t predict what’s going to happen.

.

BOAR: How will the University respond to the potential strike action, in particular the exam and coursework boycotts?

THRIFT: For staff of course pensions are a really important thing and the University is deeply aware of that. We are trying to be as consultative as possible. We started when we knew this was happening, as the only British higher education institution I know, to produce individual consultations in advance of the consultation. The Council has also produced a group of Lay members, those are people who are not part of USS pension plan (part of the problem is that almost everyone in the University is self-interested). They will then report back in November on what they think, and we will then convey that.The USS is not owned just by us but by 67 or 68 other universities. We are only one vote in that number. On the other hand we are very clear that we wish for our members of the scheme here to have to best deal that’s possible in the circumstances. We are walking along a tightrope; we are really trying to make sure that we take the concerns of staff into account because it’s the biggest thing most people have financially and one wants to take care of it.

.

BOAR: What does it entail for the future of the University if pensions for academic staff are lower than those in newer universities?

THRIFT: There was press statement that talked about how the pensions in the new Universities would be better than those of the Russell Group Universities. I think this has to be proved before we go any further, I’m not sure we actually know that because we don’t know precisely what will happen about the pensions that the employers will offer. So, I’d like to think that wouldn’t be the case. It’s important that we’re able to offer good pension facilities.

Job losses in the Medical School and Life Sciences

BOAR: What does the University make of the UCU’s claims that the proposed job losses in the Medical and Life Sciences Departments is due to a failure in management?

THRIFT: The University can’t afford to lose large amounts of money. If a department starts to lose money then we have to look at it and see what you can do about it. We’re trying to do a kind of adjustment, but I think the job losses we’ve been talking about are a kind of exaggeration.

.

BOAR: What about claims that such job losses are a result of the University embarking on spending projects towards its on the Research Excellence Framework (REF)?

THRIFT: Nearly all the money we get for building is deputed. Look at the National Automotive Innovation Centre, a lot of that was funded by Jaguar Land Rover and Tata Steel – we couldn’t move any of that money, it couldn’t go anywhere else. We don’t have a lot of choice in a lot of the income streams we have and where they go.So far as the REF is concerned, the reason why it is so important is because it brings money into the University which keeps people in jobs, not the reverse. If we didn’t have that money then there would be consequences for jobs.

BOAR: You mean larger consequences than those happening at the moment?

THRIFT: Let’s be very clear, we try very very hard with these kind of things.

.

BOAR: If staff were to be dismissed in the middle of the academic year, does the University not think that this will harm students’ academic experiences?

THRIFT: But don’t you think we’ve thought about that? [With regards to the timing of staff dismissal] it doesn’t work quite like that. There are all kinds of mechanisms involved in doing these kind of things and it’s quite a complicated process.

Warwick Sport fee increase

BOAR: At the moment there doesn’t seem to be a concrete plan for where the money from the fee increases is going to go, why didn’t Warwick Sport clarify where the redistributed costs in favour of non-club members were going to go before making the changes?

THRIFT: The only thing I can say is that I know there was a lot of consultation about it and I take it that the consultation is simply going to be continued. It’s difficult for me to say anything on that as I don’t necessarily have to be informed on every single thing in the University.

.

BOAR: Considering that the Warwick Sport price increases seem to be quite a big deal, how did university senior management not know about the proposed price increases when asked about it Term 3 of last year?

PETER DUNN: At that stage, the price increases were still being discussed and consulted.

General university development

RAW: The University has taken up major infrastructure expansion, for example, the National Automated Innovation Centre. Do you believe that continuous building projects risk spoiling the aesthetics of campus?

THRIFT: Most students don’t know how big the campus is; most never go beyond the Sports pavilion or the sports fields. We have got a lot of green space and what we’re doing is building on one corner of it. We are trying to make sure that as we build, we keep that aesthetic you’re talking about – I was genuinely distressed by the cutting down of the trees by the roundabout. One of the things that we’re doing is that we’re expanding the campus map we give out so that people can actually see where the campus is. That’s really important as the campus is beautiful.

.

RAW: There have been comments on what could be described as an iniquitous learning environment across various departments. How can the divides be bridged?

THRIFT: We want to make some of the lecture theatres better, which is why we’re building a teaching and learning centre which will go next to Costcutter. But I don’t deny that there are parts of the University that we would prefer to be in a better state – people always mention the Arts and the Humanities building, which is why I always say we are trying to build a new one. We can’t do it all at once. This money very rarely comes from the government, we have to make it ourselves, or from industry. I wish there were a kind of pot at the end of the rainbow we could go and raid every now and then.

.

RAW: Doesn’t the increase in the undergraduate population threaten to make class size overcrowded and affect students’ academic experiences?

THRIFT: The University is not actively increasing the number of undergraduates at all. We are not one of the English universities trying to increase student numbers. What’s happening though is that, because we are now in a market system, some disciplines recruit very well, others less well. If some departments don’t recruit, we have to ask other departments if they are willing to recruit more.

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*BOAR:*	How does the University feel about staff strikes potentially happening again?
THRIFT:	Well, it would prefer they didn’t. We are aware of the concern staff have over their pensions, and we expect that they would be concerned. We’ll simply have to wait and see, I can’t predict what’s going to happen.
.
BOAR:	How will the University respond to the potential strike action, in particular the exam and coursework boycotts?
THRIFT:	For staff of course pensions are a really important thing and the University is deeply aware of that. We are trying to be as consultative as possible. We started when we knew this was happening, as the only British higher education institution I know, to produce individual consultations in advance of the consultation. The Council has also produced a group of Lay members, those are people who are not part of USS pension plan (part of the problem is that almost everyone in the University is self-interested). They will then report back in November on what they think, and we will then convey that.The USS is not owned just by us but by 67 or 68 other universities. We are only one vote in that number. On the other hand we are very clear that we wish for our members of the scheme here to have to best deal that’s possible in the circumstances. We are walking along a tightrope; we are really trying to make sure that we take the concerns of staff into account because it’s the biggest thing most people have financially and one wants to take care of it.
.
BOAR:	What does it entail for the future of the University if pensions for academic staff are lower than those in newer universities?
THRIFT:	There was press statement that talked about how the pensions in the new Universities would be better than those of the Russell Group Universities. I think this has to be proved before we go any further, I’m not sure we actually know that because we don’t know precisely what will happen about the pensions that the employers will offer. So, I’d like to think that wouldn’t be the case. It’s important that we’re able to offer good pension facilities.

BOAR:	What does the University make of the UCU’s claims that the proposed job losses in the Medical and Life Sciences Departments is due to a failure in management?
THRIFT:	The University can’t afford to lose large amounts of money. If a department starts to lose money then we have to look at it and see what you can do about it. We’re trying to do a kind of adjustment, but I think the job losses we’ve been talking about are a kind of exaggeration.
.
BOAR:	What about claims that such job losses are a result of the University embarking on spending projects towards its on the Research Excellence Framework (REF)?
THRIFT:	Nearly all the money we get for building is deputed. Look at the National Automotive Innovation Centre, a lot of that was funded by Jaguar Land Rover and Tata Steel – we couldn’t move any of that money, it couldn’t go anywhere else. We don’t have a lot of choice in a lot of the income streams we have and where they go.So far as the REF is concerned, the reason why it is so important is because it brings money into the University which keeps people in jobs, not the reverse. If we didn’t have that money then there would be consequences for jobs.
BOAR:	You mean larger consequences than those happening at the moment?
THRIFT:	Let’s be very clear, we try very very hard with these kind of things.
.
BOAR:	If staff were to be dismissed in the middle of the academic year, does the University not think that this will harm students’ academic experiences?
THRIFT:	But don’t you think we’ve thought about that? [With regards to the timing of staff dismissal] it doesn’t work quite like that. There are all kinds of mechanisms involved in doing these kind of things and it’s quite a complicated process.

*BOAR:*	At the moment there doesn’t seem to be a concrete plan for where the money from the fee increases is going to go, why didn’t Warwick Sport clarify where the redistributed costs in favour of non-club members were going to go before making the changes?
THRIFT:	The only thing I can say is that I know there was a lot of consultation about it and I take it that the consultation is simply going to be continued. It’s difficult for me to say anything on that as I don’t necessarily have to be informed on every single thing in the University.
.
*BOAR:*	Considering that the Warwick Sport price increases seem to be quite a big deal, how did university senior management not know about the proposed price increases when asked about it Term 3 of last year?
PETER DUNN:	At that stage, the price increases were still being discussed and consulted.

*RAW:*	The University has taken up major infrastructure expansion, for example, the National Automated Innovation Centre. Do you believe that continuous building projects risk spoiling the aesthetics of campus?
THRIFT:	Most students don’t know how big the campus is; most never go beyond the Sports pavilion or the sports fields. We have got a lot of green space and what we’re doing is building on one corner of it. We are trying to make sure that as we build, we keep that aesthetic you’re talking about – I was genuinely distressed by the cutting down of the trees by the roundabout. One of the things that we’re doing is that we’re expanding the campus map we give out so that people can actually see where the campus is. That’s really important as the campus is beautiful.
.
*RAW:*	There have been comments on what could be described as an iniquitous learning environment across various departments. How can the divides be bridged?
THRIFT:	We want to make some of the lecture theatres better, which is why we’re building a teaching and learning centre which will go next to Costcutter. But I don’t deny that there are parts of the University that we would prefer to be in a better state – people always mention the Arts and the Humanities building, which is why I always say we are trying to build a new one. We can’t do it all at once. This money very rarely comes from the government, we have to make it ourselves, or from industry. I wish there were a kind of pot at the end of the rainbow we could go and raid every now and then.
.
*RAW:*	Doesn’t the increase in the undergraduate population threaten to make class size overcrowded and affect students’ academic experiences?
THRIFT:	The University is not actively increasing the number of undergraduates at all. We are not one of the English universities trying to increase student numbers. What’s happening though is that, because we are now in a market system, some disciplines recruit very well, others less well. If some departments don’t recruit, we have to ask other departments if they are willing to recruit more.