Lego bricks, dark money, and Mars: How Warwick’s politics podcast is rethinking democracy

Recently, I had the opportunity to interview Professor Keith Hyams and Dr Jessica Sutherland, the co-hosts of the Democracy: Differently Podcast. The two Warwick academics have used their knowledge of political theory to launch a solutions-oriented show to discuss fundamental issues in the functioning of democratic systems. Now, in Season Two, the pair is diversifying the issues discussed regarding democracy and its real-world outcomes. I first asked if they feel more optimistic about democratic systems than they did six months ago, before starting Season One. Prof Hyams said: “The problems with democracy haven’t got any better. If anything, they’ve got worse. Having said that, the podcast has taught us that some fantastic ideas and analyses are being developed to set the stage for solutions. So, in that sense, it’s made me more optimistic.”

Waking up to dark money: The practical reality

At the start of Season Two, the pair spoke with Daniel Bruce, Chief Executive at Transparency International UK, the country’s leading anti-corruption watchdog. I asked whether they thought students were aware of corruption’s reach in the UK compared to less developed nations. Dr Sutherland explained: “When you talk about dark money, people often talk about US politics and the way that lobbying is probably a little bit more open there”. From a UK perspective, it’s probably a little bit less well known and less understood.” Prof Hyams mentioned that this episode was “really fascinating” because Bruce “had so much detail at his fingertips and he could give examples like how UK housing policy has been influenced by the donations from the big construction firms.”

It’s really important they (students) realise there’s a huge political agenda behind this

Prof Hyams clarified the impact of corruption on issues affecting young people and Warwick students, such as climate change, the arms trade, and food quality. “It’s really important they [students] realise there’s a huge political agenda behind this, and that money is being funnelled in from the relevant industries. And I think people are realising that more and more, but that’s a key part of the puzzle. There’s no point recycling if you’re blind to the fact that certain companies are paying to obstruct progress on climate change.”

Bridging the gap: Academics vs. practitioners

In Season Two, the podcast has shifted from mainly interviewing academics to also interviewing those who practice politics. Recently, Prof Hyams sat down with Anneliese Dodds, MP for Oxford East. I asked whether they noticed a change in dynamic when interviewing practitioners, and Dr Sutherland pointed out that “academics don’t necessarily have a background in politics in mind when they’re talking about innovations… there’s an interesting difference there between people who are doing it first-hand and people who are theorising.” Prof Hyams felt Dodds grounded her theories in experience, specifically for example how her experiences had shaped her view that citizens’ assemblies “can be good, but you also have the challenge of making sure you bring along the rest of the population, otherwise it’s hard to implement.”

Rebuilding the machine: Mars and Lego bricks

Democracy is not a fixed state, but instead a toolkit, a set of Lego bricks, building dinosaurs and spaceships

Moving on from this, I wondered whether democracy is failing because of its practitioners or whether the system is fundamentally broken. Prof Hyams argued that bad design “creates spaces in which political culture can become soured.” One of the podcast guests, Warwick’s Professor Michael Saward, argues that democracy is not a fixed state, but instead a toolkit, “a set of Lego bricks, building dinosaurs and spaceships”. The pair also spoke with Prof André Bächtiger, where they discussed a thought experiment in which a fresh start on Mars would bring new democratic innovations. I asked what innovation Prof Hyams would take to Earth that would offer this new perspective, and he highlighted face-to-face deliberation. “People know best what’s in their interests… when they have face-to-face conversations and understand other people, they’re perfectly capable of reaching fair solutions.”

The local level and the AI frontier

But fixing democracy does not just happen at the macro level: it also happens at the micro and digital levels. Dr Sutherland sends a reminder to students that “democracy doesn’t have to be these big parliaments.” Although many students have fears surrounding the rise in capabilities of AI technologies, Dr Sutherland explains that while these fears are warranted, it is a tool that we could potentially shape: “if these tools are trained on reliable information, [they] could really help people access political knowledge that they maybe wouldn’t have before.”

The antidote to doomscrolling

you could spend half an hour doomscrolling and learning about how bad the world is, or you can listen to our podcast and find some solutions

To end the interview, I asked whether there is a particular target audience for the podcast, and it became clear that it is open to “anyone who’s interested in democratic innovation… for people who are interested in how we can change things for the better.” For those who want to know where to get started, Prof Hyams recommends listening to Episode One for a general take on the rise of populism, Episode Three for climate, or Episode Two for misinformation. To students considering listening to the podcast and need a final piece of motivation, Prof Hyams reminded me that “you could spend half an hour doomscrolling and learning about how bad the world is, or you can listen to our podcast and find some solutions.”

New episodes of Democracy: Differently are available on all major podcast platforms. The Boar would like to thank Prof Keith Hyams and Dr Jessica Sutherland, on behalf of Mihir Popat, for taking the time to discuss their podcast.