Warwick-led podcast, ‘Democracy:Differently’, launching 4 July

I had the pleasure of sitting down with two of Warwick’s very own, Prof Keith Hyams and Dr Jessica Sutherland, as they announced their ambitions for their political podcast launching 4 July – see what they did there!

Dr Jessica Sutherland, a research fellow in PAIS looking into AI and the ethics of AI in politics, and Prof Keith Hyams, a member of the PAIS department conducting research on redesigning democracy to make it fit for the future, will be the hosts of this new project.

We want to accelerate a conversation in society about why democracy is failing to deal with those problems like climate change, why its vulnerable to issues like populism and just get that message out there

Prof Keith Hyams

In a world with an ever-changing political scene, where nothing stands still for too long, Prof Hyams shared his hopes for their podcast: “We want to accelerate a conversation in society about why democracy is failing to deal with problems like climate change, why it’s vulnerable to issues like populism and get the message out there. There are actually a lot of alternative ways of doing democracy. Some that are being trialed in different places in the world, and there’s many more ideas that have been developed and designed by academics. We need to start thinking about fixing these problems with democracy rather than just accepting that politics has to be like this.”

‘Democracy:Differently’ will be available on just about every site that you use as listeners to tune in to your favourite podcast, and with a strong social media presence, Dr Sutherland hopes that they’ll “create that sort of community where you can not only listen to the podcast, but then also go on to social media and discuss”.

[Democracy is] the ideal of self-government and something that isn’t actually well done in the current world because voting for one out of two realistic parties once every five years isn’t really self-government in the fullest sense. We could actually be more democratic than we are now

Prof Keith Hyams

Podcast specifics aside, I wanted to understand why this conversation was so important to them and what garnered their interest and attention at a younger age to undertake this journey of research. For Dr Sutherland, it was a natural progression from her interests in ethics and philosophy. Coming of age in a time of great political change, alongside her love for music – which is inevitably steeped in politics and culture – sparked that interest for her. For Prof Hyams, the adventures of his gap year, spent teaching science in a small village in Guyana, as well as his work with children living on railway platforms in India, opened his eyes to questions of justice, inequality, and poverty. He noticed during his time spent campaigning on climate change and experiencing the wealth divide that “the root of the problem was that democracy is not geared up to deal with these kinds of problems”.

We often talk past each other or over each other. So, we’re not very good at deliberating together

Dr Jessica Sutherland

Diving into the crux of their podcast, I started by asking how we could begin to define democracy in our current political climate. “For me,” Prof Hyams said, “I would define it in the broadest terms as being the ideal of self-government and something that isn’t actually well done in the current world because voting for one out of two realistic parties once every five years isn’t really self-government in the fullest sense. We could actually be more democratic than we are now.” Dr Sutherland seconded this by explaining that there are lots of ways to get involved in democracy, aside from just the ballot box.

Watching the podcast’s trailer, a recurrent question popped up, and I was interested to hear from the hosts themselves as to what they thought the biggest problem with democracy is right now. “I think for me personally,” Dr Sutherland said, “it is the fact that we often talk past each other or over each other. So, we’re not very good at deliberating together.” Prof Hyams followed up by explaining how “democratic institutions are set up to favour the short term, meaning that politicians are almost forced to neglect the long-term issues like climate change”.

If you look at history, nothing stands still and actually democracy is really young. The question is not will it change, but how will it change?

Prof Keith Hyams

While their podcast will act as one way to enact conversation and create change, we also spoke about other ways we can begin to tackle these issues. Prof Hyams explained that “we can take inspiration from the many democratic experiments around the world and the many ideas that are still in the books on how we can do democracy differently, [which includes] more structures for local democracy so that more people get involved in having a say in what happens to their communities. And also, there’s ways to create mechanisms for longer-term democratic decision making. We just need to get on board with this idea that we can change our democratic institutions. We can do a lot better, and we need to be pressing for those changes to happen.”

It was clear to all of us, as Dr Sutherland said, that “younger people have taken more of an interest in these big issues that are affecting them than perhaps other generations did so young”. Prof Hyams added: “We’re going to see change, not only because tech has changed so fast, but because climate impacts are getting worse and worse and that’s going to force us to change. We don’t know where populism is going, so I’m optimistic that the younger generation will take us in the right direction. But also, if you look at history, nothing stands still and actually democracy is really young. The question is not will it change, but how will it change?”

We’re being pushed towards more content that makes us angry and that makes us less receptive to hearing other points of view. Obviously, we’ve got the issue of misinformation as well and that’s made us less trusting of each other

Dr Jessica Sutherland

Dr Sutherland has taken a particular interest in this world of AI and technological advancements through her research, and we took a few minutes to speak candidly about this new age of politics. “Social media algorithms have made these debates online more polarised, and we’ve obviously got the issue of power with who owns these tech companies like we’ve seen with X and the ways in which they can manipulate the content we see. We’re being pushed towards more content that makes us angry and that makes us less receptive to hearing other points of view. Obviously, we’ve got the issue of misinformation as well and that’s made us less trusting of each other. Even if what we’re seeing isn’t misinformation, we might think it is. With the worry around AI and especially generative AI, it’s made politics a scarier place for people to enter.”

However, Dr Sutherland said “it’s also important to see that the advent of the internet was really good for democracy in some ways, at least at the beginning. It democratised the space where people could come to actually speak on these things. You no longer have to go to a town hall meeting; you can easily post online and get your opinion viewed and discussed that way.”

[Podcasts are] a good medium for striking a balance between connecting to a public audience but also giving academics the space to explore and explain some of their ideas and experiences in more depth.

Prof Keith Hyams

Following on from our conversation on all things social media and tech, I was interested to determine why they’d chosen a podcast as their path forward. Not only does “everyone have 30 minutes in the week to listen to a podcast whilst you’re washing up or walking the dog,” Dr Sutherland said, but, as Prof Hyams added, “it’s a good medium for striking a balance between connecting to a public audience but also giving academics the space to explore and explain some of their ideas and experiences in more depth. So, it’s joining the dots between the two, which is what we feel is the most important.”

Before we parted ways, I asked them for one final message about democracy. They both shared a point in common: take part in democracy and create change.

Be engaged in any way in the issues that really matter to you. We can’t all fix everything, right? But there will be important issues that you’re really interested in, so engage with them

Dr Jessica Sutherland

Prof Hyams ended by saying: “Don’t just accept the way politics is, if you feel it isn’t working. Take seriously the idea that democracy is a work in progress. History shows it has changed and will continue to change, and you can be a part of that conversation. You can help to shape how it develops. So, begin by learning about the ideas and then find a role either through work or a campaign group or something else to put those ideas into practice.”

Dr Sutherland, meanwhile, implored anyone reading to “be engaged in any way in the issues that really matter to you. We can’t all fix everything, right? But there will be important issues that you’re really interested in, so engage with them.”

To recap, you can catch ‘Democracy:Differently’ on any streaming platform, with fortnightly episodes featuring special guests from the industry. If you’d like to keep up to date with their podcast you can find them on most social media sites @democracydiff or @democracydifferently.

The Boar Podcasts would like to thank the hosts of ‘Democracy:Differently’, Dr Jessica Sutherland and Prof Keith Hyams, for sharing their exciting new project with us.