The art of fraud: Vicky Baker on crafting true crime podcasts

While many of us spent the first week of the Christmas holiday stressing about deadlines, I had the opportunity to sit down with senior BBC journalist and podcast producer Vicky Baker (while also stressing about deadlines). In a media landscape saturated with true crime content, Vicky found her niche by investigating stories of charlatans and fraudsters. Her acclaimed podcasts Fake Psychic and Fake Heiress aren’t just sensationalist headlines: they go beyond the surface, exploring the complexity of the underlying human relationships that make fraud possible.

Vicky begins by speaking about how many of her intricate investigations began with the smallest leads. A casual internet search about the possibility of a psychic mafia led to an obscure book that would serve as the foundation for Fake Psychic. Her ability to spot these hidden gems – the stories that are overlooked or forgotten by mainstream media – has become her trademark at the BBC.

But what sets Vicky apart isn’t just her nose for a story, it’s her approach to complex narratives, namely her ability to analyse multiple perspectives while never losing sight of the human stories behind these tales of deception.

Her journey to becoming one of the BBC’s most compelling podcast creators, however, followed its own unexpected path.

The evolution of her career

For someone who began by uncovering hidden gems for The Guardian and National Geographic Traveller, Vicky’s evolution into becoming one of the BBC’s leading investigative podcast creators might seem surprising. Yet it was the skills she learnt through travel journalism – such as getting under the skin of places, finding fresh angles, and crafting complex narratives – that would prove to be invaluable in her role creating true crime podcasts.

In narrative podcast you really want to transport people to locations and help them create the place in their mind

“I think the early jobs I did for really small publications ended up proving such good experience,” Vicky reflects, acknowledging how these seemingly modest beginnings shaped her current success. “I think the things that I learned from travel writing have made me a better writer, a more creative writer … who tries to get under the skin of places. And I think that helps in narrative podcast because you really want to transport people to locations and help them create the place in their minds.” However, Vicky then became disillusioned with travel writing, stating that it “had become a bit too associated with PR in some cases,” and that the “line was being a little bit muddled.”

Doing a variety of jobs at different publications is what enabled Vicky to pick up a comprehensive skill set that propels her throughout her career as an investigative journalist. This also included a stint as a sub-editor for The Telegraph; speaking about this role she said, “There are a lot of investigative journalists who haven’t done that much writing and that’s not their skill set.’’ It was also her work at small publications that taught her how to find fresh angles, a skill that would become crucial in her podcasting work. “You’re always trying to do this with any form of journalism… find new angles and things that haven’t been written about before.”

The best stories come from unexpected places

Through experience, Vicky came to learn that it was in the most random and unexpected places that the most interesting stories came from. The best example is the random online search that led to the birth of Fake Psychic. “It was a chance Google that led me to it in the first place. I Googled ‘has there ever been a psychic mafia’ and came across the book where Lamar writes about the psychic mafia,” Baker recalls. “We got it on eBay because it’s difficult to find.”

The challenge with Fake Psychic lay in Lamar Keene, an unreliable narrator. “The nature of the narrator… unreliability, being a con man, being a confessed liar, what could we trust of what he said?” This forced Vicky to alter her approach to this investigation. What began as an attempt to solve a decades-old attempted murder evolved into something so much more nuanced: a story of potential redemption.

The challenge of building people as characters

Throughout writing the podcast, Vicky faced an interesting challenge: building portraits of individuals she couldn’t directly interview. “When you haven’t got access to the individual themselves, you’re trying to build a picture of them… but you’ve got to recognise your limitations,” she explains. The fact that Anne Delvey was in jail and Lamar Keene was dead led to her creating a narrative through those that knew them. “It’s more kind of impressions that other people have had of them that were going on.”

This was particularly evident in her work on Fake Heiress. While telling Anna Delvey’s story, Vicky had to maintain a careful balance. “I’ve always been conscious of not glamorising her or the crimes that were committed,” she notes. This challenge became even more complex as Delvey’s public profile grew, eventually leading to appearances on shows like Dancing With the Stars while wearing an ankle monitor.

Her successful podcasts don’t just tell compelling stories, but portray these narratives with integrity, nuance and respect for everyone involved.

What makes a podcast-worthy story?

What makes a story suitable for the podcast format? Vicky is clear about the essential elements: “You have got to have really strong characters first and foremost… Got to really have people that have a story to tell, are intriguing.” But she highlights that character alone isn’t enough. “It’s got to have twists and turns and hooks,” she emphasises, noting that “the best ones are where you think they’re going in a certain direction and then they don’t.”

The skills she honed through travel writing proved to be invaluable when telling stories through podcasting. “To be able tocombine hard news writing – straight to the point, succinct, getting it grammatically correct – with the creative writing of travel writing and long-form features, then combining that with investigative journalism, is why I’ve moved into podcasts,” she explains.

Investigation made Vicky a sceptic, and empathetic

Spending extensive time investigating frauds and cons has left its mark on Vicky. “I think I’m sceptical. I think I’m a massive sceptic,” she admits. However, this scepticism is balanced with compassion, particularly for those who fall victim to sophisticated scams.

“I think from what I have learnt, anybody can be conned,” she observes. “These people particularly play on emotions and look for vulnerabilities.” This understanding has shaped her approach to storytelling, leading her to “have respect for the victims and certainly not present anybody who falls for a con artist as being foolish.”

What does the future hold for her?

After two decades in journalism, Vicky still remains enthusiastic while staying grounded in the fundamentals of excellent storytelling. “I love working in podcasts and investigations at the moment,” she says, while acknowledging that the future might hold new directions.

Her advice to aspiring journalists draws directly from her own experience: “If you’re working in journalism, in whatever area, for however big or small the publication, it can all be useful for the bigger journey… Enjoy what you’re doing at each step of the way.”

Vicky demonstrates that high quality storytelling comes from a combination of rigorous journalism and creative narrative techniques. Her successful podcasts don’t just tell compelling stories, but portray these narratives with integrity, nuance and respect for everyone involved.

“Who knows where I will go from here?” she muses, embodying the adaptability that has characterised her career. In an ever-changing industry, Vicky’s approach suggests that the key to longevity isn’t sticking to one path, but being willing to embrace new challenges while maintaining core journalistic principles.